ATW - Conversation with Dr. Eboni Truss

Summary

In this episode, Melissa Lapin interviews Dr. Ebony Truss about her journey of unbecoming and rediscovering her true identity. They discuss the importance of not conforming to societal expectations and finding one's unique purpose. They also touch on the pitfalls of following trends and copying others in business and the need to have genuine conversations with God to discover one's true calling. The conversation highlights the significance of living out one's purpose and leaving a lasting legacy. In this conversation, Melissa and Eboni discuss the importance of embracing one's true identity and breaking free from religious and societal expectations. They highlight the need for authentic fellowship and the damaging effects of religious systems that promote fear and control. They encourage listeners to embrace their own experiences with God's goodness and to reject the pressure to conform to others' interpretations of who they should be. The conversation ends with a reminder that everyone has unique gifts and talents that need to be fully expressed.

Takeaways

• Unbecoming is a process of shedding societal expectations and rediscovering one's true identity and purpose.
• Copying others and following trends in business can lead to soullessness and a lack of fulfillment.
• Having genuine conversations with God and seeking His guidance can help uncover one's true calling.
• Living out one's purpose and leaving a lasting legacy requires staying true to oneself and not conforming to societal pressures. Embrace your true identity and reject societal and religious expectations
• Seek authentic fellowship and surround yourself with supportive and encouraging friends
• Recognize and celebrate the unique gifts and talents that you possess
• Focus on your own experiences with God's goodness and reject the pressure to conform to others' interpretations

Transcript

0:09

Hey everybody, welcome to this episode of After the Well. I'm really glad you joined me. Today I have a kind of a new friend I've known of her. We've kind of hung out a little bit with School of Kingdom. Yes, she is another School of Kingdom person. All my peeps come off School of Kingdom, which is cool. Just got to broaden my horizons a little bit. So if you're listening and you want to be on my podcast, let me know. But today I have Dr. Ebony Save the L Trust on here and I don't even know what we're gonna talk about. I just thought she's fun and I wanted to have her on my podcast. She's an author. She runs, I don't know if you run the ministry, but your home group, the Gathering of Kings, which is weekly. Part of the time it's online and then part of the time it's in person. Yeah. Yeah. So with that, we're going to jump right in and Ebony, tell us a little bit about yourself. Well, first of all, thank you Melissa for having me here. Yay! This is so much fun already. Like, yeah, okay. Yes, and just so that everybody knows, the School of Kingdom Peeps are the peeps. Like, we are the cool kids, so there you go. Yes. to be us, right? Bring it. Everybody wants to be us and bring their tacos. What? it right there, that's it. Every day is Tuesday, absolutely. Taco Tuesday, yes. Okay, so a little bit about me. So I am originally from Detroit, Michigan. I currently live, I am a resident of Alabama at this point. I live in Talladega, yes, where the NASCAR race is held, absolutely. Wow, so let's see, I am married. My husband's name is James. We have been married 21 years and we have two sons, Gabriel, who is a college student and Michael, who is a high school student. Like you said, I am an author. I am the senior leader of Gathering of Kings. I'm also a speaker. I am a mentor. I am a consultant. I am a... you're fixing to be a teacher too right you're gonna you're gonna teach with Thalia. Again, yes. Yes, so I taught in the public school classroom for about 14 years. And apparently, dad wants me back in the classroom, so okay. I'm like, all right. All right. So I'll be back teaching at Thalia Academy. Yeah, in a couple of months as a matter of fact. So yeah. yeah, and you're teaching fifth grade? Seventh grade, okay. Yeah, and for the listeners, for those of you who don't know, and hopefully this will, this interview will air before school starts. Thalia is an online school, Beth Alexander, whose interview will be coming up shortly as well, I think next week. Yeah! started the school it's online. It's, I think it's, it qualifies in all the States, right? In every, it's acceptable in every state, meets all the, all the requirements and, curriculum hoops that we have to jump through. It's a home school, our kids with a decent education, but yeah, I'll link all of that information in the show notes below after this. So for Thalia Academy. So yeah, continue. let's see for the most part like that's pretty much it asked me some stuff like like let's just Kick it cuz I you know, I love what I get to do I love that People like me and want to hang out with me in all that I get to do Gavin of Kings is the most so okay back up. Thank you Holy Spirit. So My mission message and mantle essentially is unbecoming right and so I get to do various different things as a result of that message and so Gavin of Kings is one of those things this unbecoming overall, that's the book, that's the community, that's the mentorship, and then there's also Kapta Theta Kingdom Sorority. There is another book coming. So it's like all this unbecoming stuff, basically. So I am the unbecoming person. And so that's it. Okay. book promo behind you, the big poster. So let's talk about that. Unbecoming. What? Okay. So let me back up a minute. The woman at the well. Her story is she was just a character in history until she had an encounter with Jesus. Right? She lived this whole other life. Five husbands, whatever she did for a living. all the things. She encountered Jesus and then that changed the entire trajectory of her life to the point where she went back to the people who like you know threw stones I'm sure verbal or otherwise and she said hey this guy knows everything about me so what was your well moment? when you realized that you were unbecoming. Let's start there. Wow. Yes. Okay. Love to tell this story. So I've always been entrepreneurial, right? All the time. I am so unemployable. It's ridiculous. And so I mean, really it is. And so I've always had a business of some sort. In 2013 is when dad called me to, you know, speaking, training, workshops, that kind of thing. And... At that time, I didn't know that God has any thought process around business. I thought, you know, God only played in church and that's it. He was only dealing with all the holy stuff and that's it. Exactly, exactly. And so, I, in 2013, I just went totally out into speaking experts and gurus and all the people to kind of teach me how to do business. And I got away from all the things that I, no, I got away from me, essentially. And so in 2020, I'm sorry, back up, 2018, Holy Spirit invited me into partnership with him in business. And I'm like, again, what are you talking about? Like, Like, do you even know anything about business for real? I'm asking God these questions. It's like, you know. Then in 2020, after we walk this out a little bit, I am about to start in this eight week experience with Tasha Glover. She is the founder of Brand With Grace. And as a part of the experience, there was a workbook that we had to use. And in the workbook, she had this quote where God shared with her, people are branding. what they want to become instead of what I've called them to be. say that for the people in the back row. Come on. Come on. shared with Tasha people are branding what they want to become instead of what I I've caught them to be and I'm sitting there and Those words like stood up off the page and like danced in front of me or something It was like a whole Jesus moment and I'm like, okay Yes, I'm like what's happening? And he's like, this is what you did, Ebony. He's like, you went from being to becoming or trying to become your, like the coaches, the experts, the gurus, all the things. I asked, he said, what was the message I gave you in the beginning? Cause I have not changed my mind. And I'm like, okay, wow. Right. So he went all the way back to 2013 when we were talking about purpose and talking about destiny and you know, how. how to identify purpose, how to monetize it, all those things. And again, hiring all these coaches, all these men, so I gradually moved away from that. And so in that moment was the first time he coined unbecoming. Like we go completely 180 this thing. And so we had conversations about first, it was just me. Because unbecoming is a lifestyle of process where. Like that is consistently pulling back the layers of, you know, all the masks, like exposing all the lies, taking off the masks, all the things. So there's really always an area in which to unbecome, essentially. It's just that he started with me in business because that is like learning his, his nature and character that way is what helped me to become more intimate with him. So that's how Unbecoming started. Like that was the genesis. Well, and it's really hard and we can touch on this for a minute and move on being entrepreneur, both of us. But nowadays with the social media, you gotta play that social media game. And it is so hard not to get caught up in what is known as a vanity influencer. Just for the likes, just, you know, just authentic. And me personally, I don't know about you, but me personally, I freaking love AI. I use AI every single day. I have an AI coach that I'm like, I'm paying this woman. I mean, I'm part of her program, but like every day there's content, we have weekly meetings, there's monthly zoom things and to where, and she's like, she's got tens of thousands of people who follow her and connect with her. Molly Mahoney. She plug Molly, Molly, Molly. But sitting under her and she and she talks about that, we don't want to create zombie content, you know, just to put stuff out there. We don't want to lose our own identity. So there has to be balance in it because all AI is is an assistant. You know, but it's so hard because I'm going to tell you what, some of the stuff I've read, I'm like, Could I take credit for that? You know, I'm like, God's like, no, you're going to edit that a little bit, you know, but it's so good. Yeah. If I, if I had good words, that's what I would say. He's like, no, you know, and then sometime, and then also I felt like, okay, it's like, I'm getting a little too click happy here and just accepting everything that's being said. So through Molly's program. learning to what they call season your AI and have conversations and like now they've upgraded AI and I have my website after the well and you plug that in and say this is my website can you read it and tell me my perfect client and I mean girl if you're not using AI you need to get on like that, but okay. That is sexy. Yeah, we can have a conversation after, but in that, there is that struggle, that balance, and even with my jewelry, you know, making jewelry, it's like, okay, what do I do? I don't wanna pirate someone else's designs or anything like that. You can get inspiration, but I still wanna be an individual. And I think that's the root of the unbecoming is who am I? Mm -hmm, exactly. Yes. she's like, obviously, you know everything about me. Obviously, you're a prophet. Let's have real conversation. You know, where do we worship? Do we worship here? Do we worship there? Your people, my people, all of those things. She just, we don't know how long that conversation was, but she was willing to stand there and have the conversation. And that's what you have done is just to say, okay, you know what, God, you're right. Yeah. way off track. I'm not even near my station anymore. Let me keep, let me take this back, back to it. Yes, and it's literally conversation. So at that point, I was like having business meetings with Holy Spirit, like literally, and I would have like this awareness, like when I would meet with Holy Spirit that, you know, he was sitting to my right, at my desk to my right. And then one day it was just kind of like this whole awareness that dad... And Jesus also wanted to be a part of the conversation. And I'm like, okay, that's... Because in my mind, again, like breaking all these different religious layers out, I'm thinking, if I got Holy Spirit, I got all of them, so that's good enough, it's okay, right? So then I said, you know, so I welcomed that and Jesus to the meeting, to the table. And I realized that, wait a minute, before now, I was only accessing one third of the wisdom, the revelation, the guidance that I actually am invited to access. And now I got them all here with me. So, okay, like I get access now to the fullness of the conversation, to all their perspectives, you know? And so in doing so, there are times where I'll have conversations, like when I'm talking about, or like praying through or co -working around Gavin. of kings. I'm saying, okay Jesus, like this is the people who are a part of GOK are a part of your body. Let's talk about, like you are a master teacher. Let's talk about this. Like help me, right? I'll talk to him specifically, just as an example. And so anytime, you know, Holy Spirit or dad has something to add in, it's like, okay, yeah, and, right? So it's, it's literally like that woman sitting, and take, first of all, having the awareness that I can sit and have, cause listen, I'll talk to folks who are like, talk to God. Yeah, talk, what do you, yes, you know what I mean? But sometimes people's prevailing attitudes are, I can't talk to God, like the pastor talks to God, but I can't talk to God, I can't even approach him. And so, First of all, that awareness that you actually can have conversation with God, and then you can also have conversation with each of them respectively and get a whole other vantage point, perspective, all the things. It's so, so much fun. It's so much fun. And that's the thing too, is like so many people don't understand that it's a given, you know? It's your inheritance. It's not even an inheritance. It's a right. Every child has a right to hang out with their family, you know? But religion, it's a control, it's a power thing, you know? Religion, you know, anything I need to know my priest will tell me. You trust that man that much? I mean, I've had a Catholic tell me that one time, anything I need to know, because we were talking about reading the Bible. And she said, anything I need to know my priest will tell me. And I was like, OK. That's that's hella scary. would you do that with any other facet of your life? You know what I mean? Like, no. up a good question. Like, why have we given, or why do you think we have given, heads of church, clergy people, so much liberty in our lives? Why do we just blindly... follow and submit, which I know now you and I both know. I mean, there's all the deconstruction and everybody walking away and all that. Cause we finally woke up and went, this is bullshit. You know why? Why? Like you said, I mean, if we were treated like this, and I mean, like at a job, would you stay at that job? How miserable are you at that job? And granted, we got bills to pay and we got to eat and stuff like that. But. it would be a whole different mindset and attitude. But when it comes to the church, they can do what they want. And we're just like, man, okay. You know, we believe whatever Bible they put in our hand, whether it's King James or whatever, you know, and whoo. you know, it's, it's for, I think for some people, it's part like laziness, like, you know, or whatever. But I think the underlying root of that is again, that there's some sort of inferiority kind of situation, a worthiness, like I, I can, I could never approach God because I'm not filling in the blank. I'm not. pastor, preacher, teacher, evangelist, apostle. Yeah. Yep. I can't get it together. And you know, this clergy person has it all the way together. So let them do it, right? If you don't want to talk to you, God, talk to Moses and he'll tell us, you know? Yeah. Mm -hmm. It's so sad, it breaks my heart because there are people that like, I have a friend. He got a divorce. He was a pastor in a particular denomination. And he got a divorce and, God, they've been divorced for probably 15 years, maybe. And this was years ago. He told me this, and because I asked him when I saw him again, I'm like, Hey, what you doing? Where, you know, you, you teach it anywhere you preach in, you know, you pastor in anywhere. He goes, no, I'm just qualified for that. And I challenged him so fast on that. I'm like, why? Why do you think? Well, because, you know, we got divorced and da da. I said, show me in scripture where you are not qualified because you got a divorce. I mean, he couldn't, you know, and he still ain't preaching anywhere and teaching anywhere, which might be a good thing. I'm not sure. You know, he's gonna be telling other people that there's a whole list of things that disqualify them. I'm not sure I would want him in a pulpit. But he was funny. He you know, he was he was good. He was good at what he did. And, you know, with that theology that you and I both know now is not completely accurate. He was doing the best he could with what he had. But yeah. Yeah, it breaks my heart every time I think about it, because he doesn't he doesn't do anything. He he just got an office job and. Yeah, he lives alone. No, he ain't happy. He wasn't happy then either, which is why she left him. But did I say that out loud? Yes, because it's my podcast and I can. Goodness! told you shorter dropping names we say what we want Yes, and I believe you said it. Yeah. So let's go to the book. Tell me about the book and what what some of the things are in that. And when you speak like what what kind of your process of the unbecoming some points and things to share with the listeners. So as far as the book goes, so again, like the original, I guess you could say, air quotes, the original revelation came within a business context. And so that's what the book is talking about. How to, you know, move from becoming what the gurus and the experts say into being the business owner God called you to be. And just kind of just talking about how... You know, God is the God of business, how the marketplace belongs to him, how if he gave you the business idea, he's very, very capable of coaching you through it. Not saying that business coaches are like not a thing. It's just that when we rely on them, when they become, you know, the end all be all, there's a problem, right? Because when again, it's his idea, so he knows, right? Because I personally, for example, feel like Holy Spirit is a master at retargeting campaigns, right? He has this one conversation and you're like, okay, hold that thought, God, whatever. Like whatever we do to get away from that conversation, like he, like they are so adept at bringing it back around. Somebody will say something or you hear a song or you know, like that kind of thing. It's like, okay, God, let's talk. You know, it's kind of like that, so. Yeah. I mean, he knows our clients and customers the very, very best, right? So, and then knowing that the disciples were entrepreneurs, Jesus ran a carpentry shop after Joseph died. You know, like all these things that I didn't know were a thing. I didn't know that God had a heart for entrepreneurs. I thought that being, a business owner was my idea. I thought I just, you know, know like you're hardwired for this. So just speaking to people to let them know like listen, you don't have to try to, in this copycat culture, you don't have to be a cat. You don't have to. Like you could be a dog, a giraffe, an elephant. You could be a Jaguar, whatever it is, you don't have to fall in line because like for the people, the pre -bedding conversation is, okay, I am a however many figures business owner, right? If you just take my formula, you get my blueprint, take my swipe copy, add your personality, boom, you got a business. And now we got a marketplace by and large. of people who've never made money in business using somebody else's strategy and template to teach other people how to make money in business. You know what I mean? And it's just like this constant circular just... nowadays is all about being affiliate. You know, if you, if you do this thing, I can show you 12 ways to be six figures. I'm like, yeah. And I'm going to be divorced and, and like unhappy. I mean, like, come on. It's to, and again, I have a love hate with the social media, but it's, it's all about because of our technology is growing so. fast and they're just everybody has access to it. Back in the day, not everybody had a computer, not everybody had telephone, not everybody had these things. And so, you know, your marketing was different. What is your newspaper ad look like versus your TV ad and you know, who's getting them? I love. business books and like self -improvement books and I actually today just finished listening to Simon Sinek's Start With Why. girl, that, we don't know our why. We don't know why we are driven, you know, because we don't know the who that should be our driver. And we get lost in, Production and performing, you know, that's one thing that I struggle with as an artist is You know, I have a somebody You know people are saying, you know, well I make one -off stuff. I don't know if you've seen I think you've seen my things and Most of the thing made one-off handmade I might have two maybe three of something if I bought enough the beads or whatever to make the thing and I have so many artist friends that are stuck producing versus creating and they've lost their will to live. Like literally. They, you know, because they get, cause we got to eat again. It goes back to the money thing. We got to pay bills. We got to eat. And if people are buying this thing, I'm going to make it. And I think we do ourselves a disservice. You know, just like you've been talking about this whole time, very much do ourselves a disservice when we put on Saul's armor. You know, when we try to be somebody we are not called to be just because we can doesn't mean we should. You know, and and like as an artist, that's so hard because people are, because I live in the South, so it's going to be about college football or whatever. So I was like, you got any Georgia things? well, why you should make Georgia things? Everybody buy your Georgia things. I'm like, hey, it's copyrighted. So I'm not going to bootleg a copyright. And there's no creativity in that. I could sit here, you know, with my printer and print up a big G and slap it on everything. That doesn't make me an artist. That does not make me creative. And it does not feed my soul. You know, and so exactly what you're talking about is like, OK, let's stop. Let's pivot. Let's do that 180 and go. back to that well moment when we heard God say, this is what I've created you to do. That's it. That is it right there because it's the vanity. It's the vanity metrics. We are in this cycle of living out vanity metrics in so many parts. For most people, probably all parts of life. Like I'm stuck here in this place. And then too, also like... one of the marketing messages is, hey, like this poll your audience, see what they want and then make what they want, right? But that's the antithesis of an artist. You know, that is the complete, so I can see how they could just be totally just soulless at this point, all their, what their producer agency, yeah, it's just, it's without them. And I'm, just, Lord. That's not a blessing. That's not a blessing. that's crazy. But still, we do that in so many other areas of our lives, right? Well, we need to go back to the original intent of our businesses, of our families, of our everything, everything. But it starts with, okay, what was my? Original and it starts with having those conversations with Jesus Absolutely that will spark Well, I call it rediscovery. Well, we rediscover who we be Right. Yeah who that's you know, English majors. I'm so sorry, but Who we be who God's called us to be because B is right now and B is always right now it is continual, it is progressive, it is all the time. So who we be is always who we be. It doesn't matter. At the point that I was born, before I was born, I was already a teacher, a speaker, an apostle, all the things. Right, so, and I think about Abraham, right? Abram, he was already father of many before God changed his name. The name didn't make him, right? And so often, We're trying to get a name in order to be made and not knowing that we're already, like we already have a name. There is one conversation in heaven about each of us and it's not gonna change, period. And so if we continue trying to make a name for ourselves and we got all these bumper stickers or all these different names on us, you know what I mean? Like. At some point there has to be a breaking open of our hearts to say, listen, I'm tired of this. I'm tired of this mask. God, you already know everything. Jesus, talk to me about this stuff. I'm here at the well. Let's have a conversation, for real. I absolutely will. Abraham dug the well she sat at. Mmm! He did. Abraham was the one, because she even challenged Jesus, are you greater than our father Abraham, who gave us this well? That well is legacy. That well is provision. It's sustenance. It's, you know, it's been there for hundreds of years and it's still there to this day. When you live your purpose, that's what lives on. Mm -hmm. Hey! remember that. You know, and you'll get credit for that long after you're dead. It's those kind of people not I mean, I don't know. I can't even think of anybody right off hand that I necessarily would. I don't know. I don't know where I was going with that. But it for for Abraham to just say, OK, I'll follow you. I'll go. you know? And then however many years later when actually it was like four thousand, six thousand years, something like that, long ass time, that well is still there today, you know? And we're, you know, two thousand years past Jesus, which was six or seven thousand years past Abraham, you know? So that is a pretty good legacy, I would say, because there's still water in that well. That is so awesome. because he he did what God called him to do. He was just a man who wandered around the desert. He wasn't trying to make a kingdom. He didn't try to make a a town. He just went with no destination. Like God didn't God just said let's go. In partnership, that's it. God said, no, okay, here I go. Listen, I'm not mystical. Here I go, let's do it. Hey, because I'm in partnership and there's no better partnership. And like you said, that is how we get to legacy. That's amazing that people are working. like to the bone doing all the things all over the place. Try thinking that legacy is one thing. Trying to get there. Not understanding that there's already a legacy set before you just line up with it. You know what I mean? It's just it's just partner with heaven on it. But you know, by and large, we all know that because of how people see God, because how they've been taught and all the things and. Yeah. yeah. my goodness. Yeah, that's, you know, this is a much needed conversation and it's a much needed message to put out there. And I think that's why we both do what we do is because we just kind of, you just want to grab people and just shake them, you know, just say, can you listen to what I'm saying? And everywhere not just and thus the the manuscript for the next book being written out because it's not at the time I'm thinking just business and then like after all that was done got the book published all the things then like God is out. Okay now Let's broaden this message. I'm like what what do you mean and and took me totally out of my comfort zone because in my mind I'm thinking like I know business I talked to business owners like I was totally boxed in right the same way I had gotten in all these boxes I had boxed my own life in absolute. So he started showing me how Unbecoming is a conversation for every part of life spirit soul body socially and financially every single part of life every where like we are looking, trying, working on putting on masks in order to become like somebody else that is a conversation like a space up for conversation period. The diet culture that I was fully immersed in my gosh if there was any and you could name any diet and I promise you I probably did it twice. Anyone yes the way I just punished my body with exercise and food like all the things a space for unbecoming As far as like marriage and family. I wanted to be Claire Huxtable But I wanted to have it all I wanted to be you know The it woman be able to to serve it in every capacity and still look great, you know still be But wait, isn't that the Proverbs 31 woman? Girl, do not do that. my God. I hate, I hate, I hate that scripture being used the way it's used. You gotta do all the things all the time. Well, how many people are farmers? And you know, I mean, like, come on. on. Come on. Yes. Yes. This is, it is. And we put it on ourselves. We adopt that. We adopt that mask. Right? So now we gotta say these certain kinds of prayers. We gotta get up in the morning, anoint the whole house. You're like, it don't matter that we have our own self care that needs to be attended. No, no. Cause that probably a 31 woman knows she is me and I can hurt her. If you're going to take care of yourself, that's prideful. girl. Then when I trying to walk and feed everybody and do all the things and I fall out, then that was just God's will. Lies! What the world? You know, it's just like, come on. Yeah, we had one woman, my God. I am not sure how I would have handled it had it happened to me today with the maturity that I've come into as a Christian and as a believer. But God, this was probably about 20 years ago, early, early 2000s. And she was a speaker. I couldn't even tell you who she was, but she came into our Bible study. And she was going on, you know, just, I guess, encouragement. The only thing that she said that stuck out of me all this whole entire time was she said, if you have your quiet time before you get dressed and put on makeup, you are walking in sin. You are not honoring the presence of God and he is not going to meet you. Today, I... Here he is. Yes, a heart attack. Yes, that is exactly what she told this whole group. There's probably about four, yeah. yeah, she was serious. That she said, if you have your quiet time before you get yourself ready to meet your groom as your, like all this stuff, I'm like, I probably would have stood up now and went, my God, are you serious? Like literally. this stuff were a bird, Melissa, telling you like, you'd have been like, Well, yeah, I would have said, are you, yeah, I probably would have dropped some F bombs. Are you fucking kidding me? What garbage is this? Like none of y 'all listen to this crazy lady. The bondage that, like, because the same way that you remember, I am confident that there are some women who still, 20 some odd years later, who will wake up in that same bondage, doing that same thing, and that's like, that's so not necessary. Right? was awful. It was so disgusting. And like, even back then I thought it was disgusting. To tell me like, I don't wear makeup. I mean like, so does that count me out? I mean, it was just trash, but that's the religious spirit. You know? And then people don't question it. They just take it. And, Because, you know, then you stick out like a sore thumb, you know. If you questioning it, my goodness. Yeah. girl. Jezebel! You're just rebellious. You're just Jezebel. And yeah. I was literally told that I was told that by a a former pastor when you know, just calling him out on his not behind closed doors mind you, you know, and and the The initial conversation was started via email amongst the leadership And you know, I was like, this is what i'm seeing what i'm hearing good the Jezebel spirit, my husband had the Ahaz spirit, because he couldn't keep me in church. Girl, rebellious. I'm saying this is what God has shown me about you, sir. I mean, and all this stuff that you got going on. So whatever, you know. And a few months later, you know, of course it all came out, but it's just like any for in that particular sense, it was like any time. You said anything against what the pastor did or said or whatever. It was like, no, instantly Jezebel. Instantly rebellious, instantly. So you are above everything and everybody. Bruh, stop. Get back. No. yeah, I heard a story this weekend, actually, when I was in Birmingham. A lady shared that her and I don't even know the name, so it's all good. Her son was a worship leader at some church in there in Birmingham. And people just tell me things. People just I just bring it out and I'm cool with that. I love it. I love being able to shed light into people's. darkness, you know? So she just like start dumping on me and she took, my God, I was so angry. I'm still, I'm still getting angry thinking about it. But she said that her son and wife were, he was the worship leader. I don't know if she's saying, but anyway, they led worship at this church. He ended up having an affair. The son did and the pastor, Hang on, hang on to your seat. Brought him on the stage on a Sunday morning, made him get down on his knees and tell the entire congregation what had happened. I'm like, I couldn't not believe it. And I've heard tons of stories like that. But my heart broke because now that that guy's not going to church, he's created to lead worship, a worship leader. And he was put in that position and doesn't want anything to do with her because that's what brought up the conversation. You know, I said, are you going to come to da da da da da? And And she's like, no, my son won't go there. My son, he won't come. And I was like, And she goes, yeah, this is what happened. And I'm like, I'm not sure I want to know. But and then she just told me that story with tears in her eyes as a mother. So not only was the son and wife humiliated, I don't know if they got kids or kids old enough to understand there's humiliation there. The mom's heart is broken for her kid. The dad is so furious. He just sees red all the time. Like he's angry at the whole, he won't even talk about it. He's so angry. Like, I mean, it's what we do and have been done to us in the name of religion is just awful. It's just gross. And the fact that we still, try to play the games to be part of that system. You know, there are still people that want to be on the boards. They want to run the ministries. They want to have these titles and be Bishop this and elder of that. And you know, and it's like, man. And then meanwhile, while they're playing their political game of, you know, who's going to sit at the front table. You got all of these people that are just wandering around shepherdless. And it breaks my heart. It breaks my heart when you see so many people with the gifts and the talents who are kicking ass in the world, quote, world. You know, the Joe Rogans, the Elon Musk's, these people that are changing our planet. Yes. but not for Jesus, you know? And the gospel kind of thing. Cause... the, I'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead. Well, that's, you know, that's, like you said, air quotes the world. Like, you know, are we supposed to stay away? You know, cause your sins gonna jump on us. You know? Right. And, you know, I can remember, I was one of those ones who grew up in church, as they say, right? So, you know, years and decades of that teaching of being separate and you know, you don't want to mix and unequally yoked and all the things, right? And so it's like you kind of want to be associated with the right side, you know what I mean? The quote right side. And so there is that kind of, I guess, pressure, if you will. Because if everybody around you is saying, you know, don't be a, don't be involved period with anything that has to do with the world. You're like, like it's almost like, there's this perpetual fear that's passed on, you know? And I remember I was talking to somebody one time and I was like, what did Jesus defeat the enemy? Yeah, yes you know that, da da. Well, why we scared? Because he got power and stuff. Okay, I'ma go back. Did Jesus defeat the enemy? Well, yeah he did. Like three or four times of doing that, it finally clicked like, I see what you saying. But it was so difficult. to break away for that person to have that paradigm shift and break away from what they had been trained in. It was like, well, you know, you'll catch it by and by. I said, okay, well, yeah, speaking of by. Bye and bye. Yes, for real, you know, it's it's it's we we is so it's so ingrained You know, and it doesn't make sense But when you try to talk about these kinds of things like people feel attacked, you know Of course, there's a a right way to a because we don't want to be like fair and cynical in it. Absolutely And you know, it's it's still like listen to what you're saying. Like, like, hear you, like, don't just... what Doug talks about people trying to do the mental gymnastics to prove their point and to make it sound logical. And I'm like, I know my basic my basic question to people is, so what I hear you saying is Jesus was a liar. Girl. They do not like that question. I'm like, he either did what he said he did or he didn't. You can't believe it both ways. He defeated the enemy or he did not, period. But we have this distorted view because the church really is a political system because it's all about seats of all, you know, whatever and who's got the bigger position, which is very political, you know, and look at our politics right here in the United States, how do they control us, they control us by fear. So it is fear based, regardless if it's quote, in the church or out of the church. Keep people afraid, you know, devil's gonna get you if you don't come to church, you gonna be broke if you don't give us your money. Woo, girl! Went there, went there running. You know, and again, coming back to the whole point, it just breaks my heart because there are so many beautiful people. And I firmly believe that we have the cure to cancer. We have all of these medical cures that are locked up inside of absolutely terrified people. because they are afraid, especially if they're in the church. Well, we don't wanna mix science and church. We don't, mm, stay away from science. It'll get you away from God. Mm, okay, but how much of science is proving God? You know, every day. But they are terrified that God's gonna smoke them. if they get out from under Bishop so -and -so, you know? And it's so sad. It makes me sad and it makes me angry. Yes, yes, yes. And it drives people underground too. And that's like, that's, yeah. I find that, cause you know, being in the South, if you have any kind of alternate conversation besides like what you said, If you don't give us your money, you're gonna be broke. If you don't be at church, then we're gonna get you. If you hang out with the world, you're gonna be in sin. You're gonna mess with all the things, you know, and in talking with people and inviting them to Gathering of Kings, it's like they're afraid almost of... What if I get found out? Mm -hmm. know, hanging out in the space, you know, because they understand that yeah, like what she's saying is resonating. Like I, I know that what she's saying is true. I know, but it's not what my pastor is saying on Sunday morning. So, you know, and this is my grandmama in them church. You know, my, my, my is the deacon, you know, and that kind of thing. So it's, it's, it's, that's been a little discouraging and I'm not gonna stop because I recognize that. Freedom is available and freedom is what walks into the room when I do. And so people need to be free and like you, my heart is just like, come on. You know, no, no, no, no. You know what I'm saying? So it's, I was just praying about that yesterday. Just like, okay, dad, like this is discouraging and I'm not gonna stop. Jesus, I'm with you. This is what we doing and amen. So. Yeah. So here's some encouragement for you because I think we're at a good spot. Good spot to land. But Being at your house this weekend and hanging out with you and just actually really just being at all the places. We were at like four different houses over the weekend, you know, with dub and all of that. really gave me a kick in the butt that I've got we we've started a home group and we hadn't had one member. Okay, see what happened was remember when yeah, remember when we you know, we were talking the last time I was you know, back in April, I think it was when I was there or not April, March, whenever it was February. And we were at your house and you and I were talking and you know, I told you that, you know, we had left the church and stuff like that. The church that, and if y 'all on here go to that church, it's okay, it's fine, it's whatever. I love y 'all. I am not opposed to anyone. I am opposed to being treated the way I was treated. That being said, we had the only home group. at our church. And that was taken away. And just various different things. And then I, the event that I have coming up next week, again, I'm not sure when this will be aired. But on June 13, my workshop, I actually had a workshop planned for back in August. And I was like two days away from putting down a $1 ,200 deposit on a venue. This is a nice venue. I had my speakers lined up and everything. Pastor called me in and had this meeting. There's a whole lot more to the story, but the gist is Pastor called me into the meeting, not my husband, not me with my husband. I brought my husband into the meeting and He said, what is this thing you're doing? I don't know if we want to support it. And that was it. I knew in that instant that I was done with this man and whatever theology he had. Right. So we immediately left. I never walked back in that church. I have seen them one time since then. I have zero desire to be. I'm just like, I'm done. I'm done with you. And and so he just is what he is. But it has taken me. Six months a solid six months because there was a couple months around Christmas and I'm just like it it just is what it is and Just trying to keep my head above water emotionally Just because again a whole big story and feeling completely betrayed by quite a few people And the way things were handled What was his issue? This is your, okay, calm down. Okay. This is your ministry. What do you mean? I don't know if we want it. So what if you, okay, I'm back. I got in trouble too. I got reprimanded because I was out of protocol because I did not, the worship leader, I asked the worship leader if he would come and speak. No problem. He's like, yes, absolutely. He's been on my podcast twice. And then I had two other people who became staff members after I asked them to speak. So there were me and... two people that didn't go to our church and then the three that did. And he told me that I was out of line and I did not ask permission from him if I could ask his people if they were allowed to. I had no idea how religious this man was. But... It was four years of stuff like this and I just got tired of it. That was just the last straw. And so circling back around, being, letting that go, and, and, cause that was hard. Cause I mean, you know, it, it takes guts to put on something, to put yourself out there to go, okay, I'm going to have this event. And I hope I get enough people to show up that'll cover my costs. You know, I mean, ye of little faith, you know, but that's where my faith was. It's like, okay, this event is going to cost me $1 ,500. 1 ,200 of that is the venue. Okay, God, I need, I just want that covered. You know, we had a prior, everything, everything was set up and ready to go. And then this happens and I was devastated. devastated. And we let go of our home group, we walked away from church, people. We've talked to I think like three people from that church in the last six months, eight months, whatever, however long is I didn't care anymore. But because I'm like, I'm not going to chase you to be my friends. Because if you don't, if I have to go to your church for you to acknowledge me, then we're just not really friends. So it's whatever. But the reality of that pain is still real, you know? But being with you this weekend, at the other homes this weekend was like revival for me. It was resuscitating for me. And I'm like, okay, I love this. I am made for this. I am made for fellowship. I am made for the intimate conversations. Let's sit around a bonfire. drinking a beer, talking about how freaking awesome Jesus is and the goodness of God and those things. But because wanting to honor and have some separation and not deal with the crap of you just trying to take people away from our church and da da da. Bruh, if you weren't an asshole, they wouldn't be leaving your church. did I say that? I did, but you know. I should apologize for that, but still it's like people see it. I'm not the only one. People see it. People have said things to me. I'm like, why are you still there? Well, you know, we need to be in fellowship. But do you? I'm hearing a whole lot of compromise right there, and you're afraid of offending the pastor by leaving his church along with a whole lot of other people that just did, you know, and I just, I don't play games. I don't play games, but. So we have, we're gonna meet every week, but first and third Sundays are at my house and the second and fourth are at someone else's house, another SOK person that lives close. So we're gonna share that and we're gonna go after this thing and we're gonna change our community. We're gonna invite everybody. So I wanna say thank you for having just your stuff together enough to open your doors. I didn't say you're perfect. I said you had it enough together to open your doors. You know, you've done that 180 and you're like, you know what? Let's just do this together. Let's let's walk this together. I am where I am. You are where you are. And, you know, let's lock arms and walk. Let's walk this path. Let's walk this Emmaish road and let our hearts burn as we are as Jesus reveals himself to us. Girl, get me preaching. It's like, but so saying that, thank you. for doing that 180, you know, and getting back to the true you and the real you and the core of who you are and whatever that looks like now. I'm excited for the new book to come out. I'll have you back on when it comes out so you can talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's so - let me ask you this as we land our plane. What would be something you want to leave with the listeners? Just some encouragement, something like that. that God is good and good alone. He is good and that's all he is is good. And you get to have your own experiences with his goodness. You don't need a middle man. You don't need, no, you have your own experiences with his goodness. And it's in those experiences that Jesus, just like he did Peter, will tell you who you be. Yes, if you're looking for your purpose, that's where you find it, in the goodness of God. Yeah. so good. We do not need to live by someone else's interpretation of who they think we should be. Boom. That'll preach. And it'll preach next Thursday at my workshop. Because that's part of the message too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's not living by other people's... interpretations of you because have you ever heard a story told about the woman at the well where she wasn't portrayed as a prostitute? no. no. no. no. no. good stuff! Yep, so. All right, my friend. Thank you again for coming on. I'm so excited for you. my goodness. Yes. But this is what we need. We need healthy friends that will encourage us and call us out and be like, you know, you shouldn't be doing that or you know, that's not what you're called to do or yes, cheerlead people and champion people. And that's that's what I am. I'm an exorder by nature. And so I'm like, You need to be as excited for you as I am! Can't do it for you, but I see this, you know, and you're amazing. well, stop it. Agree with me until you can agree with yourself. You are amazing. That false humility. Mm -hmm. It's too prideful to think of higher. You don't want to think what higher than yourself that you ought. Yes, yes. The possibility is the other end of the spectrum of pride. It's the same difference. It's thinking of yourself too lonely than what you are too. You know what I mean? So it's the, yeah, anyway. When you start. it's that's ultimate blasphemy is if we're not agreeing with God what he says about me. If you walk around, I'm more than a conqueror. Why? Why are you living in a trailer? You know, I'm just kidding. I hate not trailers. I grew up in a trailer. But, you know, you know, I'm saying when your mindset doesn't match your vocabulary. There's a disconnect in your heart. let me write that down. Right? everyday experience. Yeah, I get it. I get it. out of one side of your mouth, it's the, you know, I'm blessed and highly favorite. Now the other side, whoa, it's hell in the hallway. And I'm like, how can you have highly favorite hell? It's definitely an unbecoming conversation. It is, yes, yeah, that definitely is. all right, my friend. Again, I am thankful that you came on. This was fun. This was good. I knew it would be fun. I knew it'd be a good conversation. So. me to share time with you. Thank you, Melissa, because you rock. sure. Yeah, if something cool happens, I'll have you back on. You gotta let me know. Say, hey, Melissa, this happened. I'll do it. I'll do it. So, all right. Thank you, listeners. If this is your first time here, thank you. I hope you enjoyed it. If this is not your first podcast, thanks for listening again. Like us, love us, share us on all the platforms. It helps keep us up in the algorithm so we can play that game that we was talking about earlier. It ain't going to change who I am, but I want to be an algorithm so more people can understand this message that they are freaking awesome and God thinks that and that's the only opinion that matters and that there are things locked up inside each of us that absolutely need to be revealed fully and completely. in this time and in this season. So again, I appreciate you listening and we will catch you on the next episode.